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Post by dragons3 on Apr 24, 2006 14:06:22 GMT -5
IRON WARRIOR, TRY PLAYING 3 LOOTED RINOS @ 50 points EACH, YOU MAY HAVE LESS HEARTBURN, (I DON'T HAVE A CODEX WITH ME), BUT I HAVE SEEN IT DONE. 3 RINO'S ,300mg of tagamet 3 times a day should get ride of your heartburn. HAVE A NICE DAY! "DOCTOR DRAGON" ;D
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Post by Catachan Colonel on Apr 24, 2006 14:09:50 GMT -5
1.) Nothing of his is ever going to come across center point of the table unless its an objective that forces him too or its to his advantage to.
Right cause people naturally do what is at a disadvantage to them. shooting with assault units assaulting with shooty ones.
2.) He is just going to sit there with most of his models and shoot me to death.
once agian against one of the 3 big assault armies (Orks nids and Khorne) i am going to what? assault the army better at it.
3.) He is going to avoid combat like a disease
once again against on of the 3 big assault armies this is not shocking in fact if he ran ove the proper question is "is he high?"
Orks dont face this any diffrently than Chaos Khorne does.
If i had made the complaint a year ago that dear gawf everyone just assaults the hell out of my guard its un fair... even armies bad at assault assualt my guard, why dont the orks or berzerkers just have a friendly shooting match i would have been told to Shut UP.
the only diffrence is that a dedicated shoting unit may just eliminate someone the same whay dedicated assault units do when they finally get to grips. When is the last time anyone even wondered if the big bloodletter unit would destroy what it touched in assault, why should a shooty squadof the same calliber and cost be any diffrent)
On the ork subject i will have to put my models where my mouth is and intend to do so. (please forgive if my initial looted tanks dont look all that looted.)
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 24, 2006 14:54:37 GMT -5
NO,NO,NO: RINO'S ARE FOR ELITES LIKE BURNA BOYZ OR THAT TYPE OF MODEL, YOU STILL USE THE TRUCKS FOR ALL THE OTHER STUFF IN LARGE NUMBER. RINOS HAVE ARMOR 11 & SELF REPAIR, LEAVE THERE SQUAD, USE AS COVER, CONTEST TABLE COURTERS AND OF COURSE THEY HAVE THE "ALL MIGHT STORMBOLTER",(JUST KIDDING).
CUTT'N SHOOT BYE!
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 24, 2006 16:41:18 GMT -5
WTF Dragon??? Your answer is put Orks in Rhinos? Hmm the Rhino rush doesn't work for marines, why would it work now for Orks? Gotta like seeing the rhinos getting popped and a squad of elite Orks entangled, yep, that makes for some fine shootin'!
Back to you Tom. Nope, wasn't the booze talking or the ex wife's crack either. Like Shaun said you gave a speech that would bring tears to GW's eyes. ( That is Bush I am referring to not the usual "evil empire" GW.) The point of the matter still has not been argued. My contension is that the Tau got a whole lot better with all but a few insignificant exceptions. Like I listed you have all your old TACTICS to fall back on PLUS a whole lot of better new ones as well. BTW I forgot to mention the seeker missiles, thanks Ron! There isn't one player here that doesn't wish that they have these little deamons that don't need line of sight to hit. Ranger Dude, I can't believe you think TACTICS can turn the tide in this arguement. Fact of the matter is that Tau now have alot more options that ANY army including the marines. I love seeing new and different armies, that is why we all play this game, however we all play with the thought of having a fair chance to defeat any given opponent on any given day. I don't see this being the case against the Tau now. The way I see it I have to wh0re my army out to even have a chance at a draw, further increasing the plague of powergaming that has become so popular in the new "fair and balanced" 4th edition of 40K. I am a decent tactician, but unless I am way off base I see almost zero ways to defeat the much improved Tau. So here is my challenge and if you can answer this MAYBE I will agree that the new codex is not over the top. Ready? The question is...
How do you beat the new Tau Empire? Can it bee done with a fair army or do you have to play wh0red out lists to have a chance? What TACTICS would you use, please be specific. Any ideas? How about assault armies? Maybe playing the Tau should be like this.... I have Orks ( or Khorne, or Nids, etc), you have Tau, you win, next...
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Post by Ranger Dude on Apr 24, 2006 17:04:19 GMT -5
If you read my whole message, you would notice it said that people will find ways to beat them IN TIME. That means not now. It takes time to figure these things out. The point I'm getting at is that any time a codex gets an overhaul, I hear people complain about how tough they are and that they are over the top. Then in time, people figure it out and stop complaining. I never said the Tau weren't tough.
As for the tactics issue, I don't think it's the armies that cause this. I think it's the missions. That's why I like playing at Coyotes den. There system may not be perfect, but it does cause you to think about tactics more. It's not all about how much you kill. It's the one place I know of where an army wiped off the board can still achieve objectives. Pretty much every GW scenarion is decided by how much you killed. Maybe we should try our own hand at objective based mission design and then see how all the armies do.
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Sanguinary
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Post by Sanguinary on Apr 24, 2006 17:18:41 GMT -5
I think a Khorne army would really destroy Tau. Maybe even Blood Angels totally dedicated to assault. Orks stand "0" chance because of their non-existent save(Maybe speed freaks).
In order to really whoop the new tau you MUST get into HtH. It has to be fast and hit hard. If I took 3 Assault squads and 3 Veteran Assault Sqauds with an Honor Guard w\ Jump Packs I think I could crush any Tau player, but for the love of god, "Should I have to?"
Maybe a Marine with a full out Shooty army could take them down. 9 Tornadoes, 3 squads of Deep striking Termies(HtH or shooty) 6 Las\Plas Tacticals. and 3 Drop Podding Dreadnoughts. ANd a chaplain with Terminator Retinue.
I am just throwing crap out there, but that is what it will take to really destroy the Tau now.
Dragon in all of his glory had never been Phased out with his Necrons. Guess who the first army was to do it? Ding, Ding, Ding... You guessed it. TAU!!!!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Apr 24, 2006 17:23:13 GMT -5
Dragon, Rhinos are HEAVY Choices for Orks. 10 Orks in assualt is not effective, cannot move and assualt out of a rhino. Please dont presume that my problem stems from me not reading my Codex, because OBVIOUSLY you havent even read it.
Tom, I never said it was a complaint, I was merely stating 4 things that ALWAY happen in a game with tau. I guess if there was a complaint it would come from the side of "Oh look its the same (or Another) tau army" They are now recieving the Stigmata that the iron warriors one had. But at least with the IW you were going to get into assualt with them, and still had a chance of out shooting them. Nothing was garunteed before the battle started. I took it upon myself not to build the typical WAAC IW army....I dont know if I can say the same about Tau players because all Ive seen from anyone is the same idea of Mobile Tau, Mobile Tau, hey look more Mobile Tau (By Moblie Tau i mean the FOF tactic )Fish of Fury mentioned on other boards)) This army comp works if you want to win.
Fine if thats what your going for, but dont expect people to be happy about being blow off the table before they reach you. Why is it that I switch away from IW's or went with assualt troops like the raptors, or the 10 marines in a rhino, the DS terminators. Because people dont like being blown off the table by shooting.
Your rebuttle is that tau are not good in HTH so why should I do something that the army isnt good at. Well, I dont totally disagree with that statement, but I would have to go with this is partly GWs fault. On the other hand, you have always been one about preeching Kroot, why dont you take your own advice this time?
There has been a gradual change form "fun and fair" armies to "WAAC" over the past few years and quite frankly Im a bit taken aback from it. Im to the point where I really want to quit 40k until the next edition to see if the can improve on the rules of the game. The modo: PLay big or go home comes to mind here....Does one comfrom to the rest and play the way everyone else does just to be competitive or keep playing the way they do and promptly be beaten by the uber armies?
I dont know what you think your going to prove by this, I can only surmise you will create an ork army form marines or such and go to millenuim and challange someone to a game. Come back saying you beat them and that orks are good or something. Good luck to you is all I have to say.
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 24, 2006 19:13:30 GMT -5
DOUG, SANGY AND & WHO EVER: BURNA BOYZ &TANKBUSTAS MAXIMUM SQUAD SIZE IS TEN, THATS WHY YOU PUT THEM INTO A RINO. YES ORK CODEX READER: 3 RINOS IS A HEAVY CHOICE, BUT ORK HEAVY CHOICES DO NOTHING FOR ME. THE ONLY OTHER ORK HEAVIES I LIKE ARE DREADIES & KILLER KANS. I'LL TAKE 2 SQUADS OF BURNAS AND ONE SQUAD OF TANKBUSTA IN THREE RINOS FOR THE POINTS, THANK YOU. AND SINCE ORKS WILL BE MY NEXT ARMY,I PROBABLY WILL! IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY ORKS, PLAY PATRICK! SORRY FOR DRIFTING OFF TOPIC, I WILL NOT SHAN'T COMMENT AGAIN ON ORKS. BACK TO THE TAU CIRCUS! THANK & HAVE A NICE DAY!
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 25, 2006 16:46:26 GMT -5
Well my friends it doesn't look like I will be dredging up an apology too soon since my question has gone unanswered. Again I ask...
1) Can Tau be beaten with a fair and balanced army now, or do you have to wh0re it out to be competitive? 2) What tactics do you believe can be used against Tau?
Come on all you "greater good" players, how about a response.
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Apr 25, 2006 16:58:20 GMT -5
Ok I just need to point this out.
*blink blink blink* Does this make sense to anyone? Poster your contradicting yourself.
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MajorSoB
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Post by MajorSoB on Apr 25, 2006 17:42:50 GMT -5
LMFAO!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 25, 2006 19:05:55 GMT -5
OF COARSE ONLY TO REAL ORK PLAYERS, NOT TO THOSE WHO NEED ARMIES THAT PLAY THEM SELVES, AND WHO WILL NEVER FIGURE THEM OUT. BLINK, BLINK, BLINK MY A$$! WINE & CHEESE, WINE & CHEESE! I SHOULD KNOW BETTER TO SUGGEST ANYTHING AT ALL, MY APOLOGIES "IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN. BUT HAVE A NICE DAY! MY ORKS WILL MUCH DIFFERENT THEN YOURS!
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Iron Warrior
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Post by Iron Warrior on Apr 25, 2006 19:22:13 GMT -5
Oh you mean like armored company, Like Marines and Like bugs or Necrons, right? Those armies play themselves. Keep talking man because nothing you are saying is making any sense. As seen above. You want an army that doesnt play itself, Try Eldar (any type) Try Orks, Try Imperial guard without 15 tanks, those armies are d**n hard to play and I give credit to ANYONE who is succerssful with them, Like Tom, Matt, Hendrick, ect...these people know who they are. Only thing Ive ever seen out of you is some burly ass army that is one dimensional.
No one is crying cheese, no one is whining (well except you) This has been a good conversation or debate up until you pull out your diapers and start to cry because you may be wrong about something.
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Post by dragons3 on Apr 25, 2006 20:44:44 GMT -5
I HAVE ELDAR AND I HAVE ORKS,ELDAR I'VE PLAYED MANY TIMES THANK YOU. ORKS ARE NOT IN THE CONFIGURATION I WANT YET! YOU JUST DON'T GET IT! GO BACK AND READ ALL THE CRAP YOU'VE WRITTEN DAY AFTER DAY. AND THEN MAYBE YOU'LL REALIZE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE REALLY THINK OF YOU, OR WHAT THEY PUT UP WITH. BUT I'M BETTING, YOU JUST DON'T GET! I HAVE NO TROUBLE BEING WRONG, IT'S JUST A GAME! AND WHEN IT COMES TO DIAPERS,WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBLY USE? HAVE A NICE DAY AND TRY REAL HARD NOT TO HAVE THE LAST WORD, I BET YOU CAN'T DO IT!
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